State Races Matter: Lala Wu
January 4th, 2024
“State legislatures are where so much of the impactful policy is really made.”
Lala Wu is the co-founder and executive director of Sister District, an organization that works to build enduring progressive power in state legislatures. We discuss how state races will continue to be important during the presidential election cycle and why the battle for redistricting will be center stage.
State legislatures are where a lot of impactful policy made, such as abortion laws. They’re also critical because in most states, state legislatures control redistricting. Building progressive power is about winning elections, passing legislation, and then telling the story about legislative successes so that voters want to keep you in power and continue the work.
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Credits:
Host: Mila Atmos
Guest: Lala Wu
Executive Producer: Mila Atmos
Producer: Zack Travis
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Lala Wu Transcript
Mila Atmos: [00:00:00] Thanks to Shopify for supporting Future Hindsight. Shopify is a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs like us the resources once reserved for big business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/hopeful. All lowercase.
Mila Atmos: [00:00:24] Welcome to Future Hindsight, a podcast that takes big ideas about civic life and democracy and turns them into action items for you and me. I'm Mila Atmos. It's 2024 and the future of America is in your hands. We're here to bring you an independent perspective about the election this year, and help you unlock your power to change the status quo.
We've had many a conversation on the podcast already about American democracy residing in states, and although most of the political coverage you'll encounter this year will be about the presidential election, the states that have elections this year will be equally, if not more, impactful on our daily lives. In the wake of the Dobbs decision and red states busy passing anti-abortion laws, it's become abundantly clear just how much power state legislatures have.
Our guest is Lala Wu, co-founder and executive director of Sister District, an organization that works to build enduring progressive power in state legislatures. She joined us back in 2021, and we're now talking to her on the heels of organizing a victory in the state of Virginia. We're thrilled to have her with us today and help us frame our thinking and our actions as the elections play out this year.
Lala, welcome back, and thank you for joining us.
Lala Wu: [00:01:55] Thanks so much. I'm glad to be here.
Mila Atmos: [00:01:57] So you were on the show a few years back and your work has only gotten stronger. But for those who are new to Sister District, please remind us where your organization fits in to the electoral landscape.
Lala Wu: [00:02:11] Sister district's sole focus -- and in fact, some might say that we are obsessive about it -- is to build power in state legislatures. And we believe so deeply in the power of state legislatures because of the outsized impact they have on every issue we care about. As you just talked about, whether it's abortion or guns or climate or education or democracy itself, state legislatures are at the heart of those decisions. The state legislatures are also so critical because in most states, it's the state legislatures that control redistricting, which determine the extent of gerrymandering and whether or not we live in a truly fair and representative democracy. And they are also the pipeline for tomorrow's national leaders, a training ground for folks to grow in their careers. And finally, state legislatures are an incredible bang for your buck. For the fraction of the cost of a congressional race to an average congressional race, you can really help to elect leaders who are going to be incredibly impactful, often much more so than even those making federal legislation. So where we fit in is at this state legislative level, and our work is organized into two buckets primarily. We help to win urgent elections each cycle, and we also help to build infrastructure for the long term. And that's progressive infrastructure that helps us win this enduring long term power. So we have a number of different programs, but the first one and the one that we're best known for is our grassroots field and fundraising program. And that is where we've got our 70,000 members all across the country organized into local teams or chapters that are then sistered, like a sister cities concept, with state legislative candidates running in close, winnable districts in key battleground states for support. And we focus on democracy battlegrounds and presidential battlegrounds like Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, Nevada, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. And so then our volunteers will raise money, make phone calls, write postcards, travel, go knock on doors, all to help get these incredible candidates across the finish line so that we can win majorities, defend majorities, and make inroads into badly gerrymandered states.
Mila Atmos: [00:04:36] Excellent.
Lala Wu: [00:04:37] We do a lot of other things as well, but I'll stop there.
Mila Atmos: [00:04:39] All this to say, you talked about urgent elections and Virginia was an urgent election. But I think a lot of people didn't fully understand why the Virginia state legislature was so important to win for progressives.
Lala Wu: [00:04:54] Virginia was a must win last year in 2023. We absolutely had to win this election. Abortion was on the line. But not just abortion, democracy itself. Going into this election, we could only afford to lose one seat in the state Senate, and we only needed three seats to flip the state House. And what we heard Republican candidates saying, as well as the Republican governor, Glenn Youngkin, was that if Republicans were able to take power, they were going to ban abortion. Governor Youngkin tried to get Republicans to coalesce around this idea of a so-called compromise, a 15-week abortion limit. Tried to avoid calling it a ban, but voters saw right through that and abortion was on the line. Abortion was at stake and voters understood it and acted accordingly, delivering both houses for Democrats.
Mila Atmos: [00:05:53] So what were the margins? Because I think this is also often lost. You know, when people say every vote counts, and that is more true in states or localities than in other places where races can be won by 100 votes or less or in the hundreds. So tell us about what the turnout was in Virginia and what your margin of victory was.
Lala Wu: [00:06:14] Yes, absolutely. This was an odd-year election, but the turnout was really actually quite phenomenal. And you can see how energized Democrats are and continue to be by the abortion issue after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade in 2022. So it continues to be extremely motivating for Democrats, but it's also motivating for Republicans. Governor Youngkin did push early voting in a way that he had not before. It's kind of ironic because Trump and all of his cronies had previously talked about how early voting is dangerous and not to be trusted and all of that. But, you know, Governor Youngkin understood how important it was to get folks out early and what an advantage that can have for your party. So there was a bump there. But Democrats worked harder, were more energized, came out. And the margins, like you said, were small. There were a few of these seats that flipped the state House, for example, that were decided by a thousand or so votes. One of the two candidates we supported who unfortunately did not win this year. She lost her race by just around 900 votes. And so these margins are, as you say, really, really small. And it means that every vote really, really matters.
Mila Atmos: [00:07:39] Right. But you know, you mentioned earlier about this also being sort of the training ground for national candidates. And I know people were talking
about Youngkin as the potential presidential candidate. And now that he did not pull off a trifecta basically, in the state of Virginia, for sure, his ambitions have cooled for the time being. Maybe not in the long term, but for sure not in '24. So, speaking of '24, tell us about the battleground states for Sister District this year that are incredibly important while the presidential race is also running?
Lala Wu: [00:08:16] Yes. So we will be focusing on states like Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. And these are states where we want to be able to flip a chamber, hold a chamber, or make inroads into badly gerrymandered states. Every year, we try to build a portfolio that has all of these elements in it, and they happen to also be, of course, very important presidential battlegrounds. And that's intentional. We look for places we can work where there are going to be opportunities for power building up and down the ballot. So in Michigan, for example, where last year we were able to help usher in a Democratic trifecta, which has, by the way, resulted in a tremendous amount of excellent progressive legislation. Now, this year in 2024, what we are planning to do is to help defend that trifecta. The Michigan State House will be up again, and we will be making sure that we can defend the majority there, while at the same time helping to drive presidential turnout in a critical, existential election year.
Mila Atmos: [00:09:33] Yeah. So tell us about how you turn people out. How do you win? Because again we talked about the slim margins of victory. What's the best way or what in your experience has worked the best to turn people out to vote? Is it phone banking? Is it knocking on doors? Does it have to be a combination of both? Is it texting? Is it postcarding? What are the things that you found are more effective than other things?
Lala Wu: [00:10:02] Absolutely. All of these tactics that you mentioned have different values and bring different things to the table. But at the end of the day, a conversation you can have with a voter is the very best thing. That kind of live human connection is the best way to turn folks out, to really leave an impression on them, make them feel that desire, that motivation, that final push that they need to get out and vote. So what that means is that conversations on the doors are the best way to turn people out. But the second best thing you can do after that is phone calls. And there are so many opportunities for folks, even those who don't live in these critical swing districts and
states. And in fact, that's really so much of what Sister District's model is premised on, that there is this abundance of energy that exists in places like San Francisco and New York and Chicago, and that we can harness that energy and direct it towards these key races. We hear all the time stories from our volunteers talking to voters who say, "well, I talked to somebody who didn't even know there was an election happening, and I let them know about who the candidate is and what issues they care about. And they told me that they were going to make a plan to go vote," or someone who said, "oh, I forgot today was Election Day. I'm actually going to put on my shoes right now and go out the door and vote." Or someone who has said, "I made 55 phone calls today and didn't talk to anybody. And then I had two great conversations with people who wanted to know more about the candidate, and I was able to tell them that information and get them motivated to go out and vote." So it really does make a difference. And the live conversations are the best way to go, right? I don't want to give short shrift to postcards as well, though. This is also an important way, especially if we cut the universes strategically and carefully. We can look to get the postcards into the hands of voters where it's really hard to knock on their doors. And so the postcards and phone calls are both really good for reaching those hard to reach voters. And the other benefit is that the candidate knocking doors is one of the most effective ways to get the message out, especially in these state legislative races. And so when we at Sister District or other volunteers across the country are able to take on that phone banking burden, it frees up the candidate and local volunteers and staff to go knock on doors and have those face to face conversations.
Mila Atmos: [00:12:48] Ahhh! Excellent. Yeah. So you're basically like a supplement to the ground campaign. You were just talking about the fact that some people don't know it's an election coming up. And I think that's one of the biggest problems we have in this country is that we don't just have... I don't know, elections only every two years, let's say, so that everybody knows this is an election year. And and one of the biggest challenges, for example, in New York City, where I live, is that the mayoral election is always not in a presidential year, always in an odd year. And here in New York during a presidential election, 65% of the voters turn out. But for a mayoral election, it's something like 21%. So it's just shocking. But at the same time, it's great that you're bringing awareness that the election is happening. I think we should change, you know, when we hold elections. So everybody always turns out at the same time. Every election day in November, every two years, or even if it is every year, then make sure
everybody knows every year there's an election and you have to come out and vote. So it's January, so we're far away from November 5th, Election Day. So you're not doing the get out
Lala Wu: [00:13:56] Not that far...
Mila Atmos: [00:13:56] Not that far! You're not doing the get out the vote calling right now. Not, you know, not doing that kind of work. What is the kind of voter outreach you're doing right now?
Lala Wu: [00:14:04] So voter outreach needs to happen all year round. And of course the nature of it changes. So we're not doing GOTV right now. But what we are doing is supporting community based organizers on the ground in our battleground states, who are talking to voters 365 days a year. So we do this through a program called State Bridges. And this is where we identify these local partners and we fundraise for them directly. We also hold events so that we can highlight their voices and elevate their work nationally to a national grassroots base. And this powers their ability to have those conversations all year round and not just have conversations, but also provide services, provide support to folks, build relationships in their communities so that when it is time to GOTV again, not so long from now in November, we will be able to leverage those relationships, lean on them, and folks already have a better understanding and can connect the dots between why what happens at the ballot box relates to what happens in the legislature, and how that relates to their lives.
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And now let's return to my conversation with Lala Wu.
Mila Atmos: [00:17:39] I want to talk about redistricting and gerrymandering, because, of course, we know that counter-majoritarian forces are not only a play when it comes to congressional districts, but also at the state level. And I'm thinking here of Pennsylvania, you know, where majority of people voted for Democrats and yet the Republicans held power for a long time until last year. So tell me how you think about this at Sister District and what's your strategy?
Lala Wu: [00:18:06] Our North Star at Sister District is to build power in key states every year this decade, so that we can be in the strongest position possible for redistricting in 2031. So redistricting is central to what we do and why we do it. We think ahead and not just in terms of months or even years, but to the end of the decade where, again, it's not that far away. And we need to be thinking in terms of how we can put ourselves in the strongest position possible to win majorities and to build stronger and to have stronger maps, so that we can address some of these structural issues that are really so detrimental to democracy and are preventing voters from really having their voices heard.
Mila Atmos: [00:19:00] hmmm, so do you do any work to help with the redistricting, or are you primarily focused on getting the people elected in order to hold the majorities?
Lala Wu: [00:19:11] Yes. Our role is to help get those majorities elected. And what we also do is help to educate voters in the process through our partners, as I mentioned, in the State Bridges program, as well as do a lot of civic education and talk about the importance of state legislative races in general and what happens at that level. We've done some pretty interesting research and are in the midst of that right now that I would also be glad to talk about.
Mila Atmos: [00:19:45] Yeah, go ahead. Tell us.
Lala Wu: [00:19:47] So there is a phenomenon known as "down ballot roll off." And some people like to call it the hidden turnout problem. And it's this phenomenon where voters start at the top of the ticket and don't finish voting all the way down. And this is something that, unfortunately, is much more common for Democrats than it is for Republicans. And in these races that have these extremely close margins, as we've been talking about, it can make a really big difference. If 10% of voters aren't finishing their ballots at the state legislative level, that can mean the difference between flipping a seat or not flipping a seat, and the difference between winning a majority and not winning a majority. Just to give a really concrete example, in Michigan in 2020, we did the analysis to show that there were around 137,000 people who voted for Biden, who did not vote for the Democratic State House candidate. Among those, there were certainly some ticket splitters, some people who voted for Biden and voted for the Republican down ballot. But in an age of increasing polarization, it makes a lot of sense that a lot of those people just skipped voting for the state legislative position. What is really wild is that to win the majority in the Michigan State House in 2020, we only need to win around 1800 votes in a few different districts. And so our idea here is if we can find a way to better understand and then to design interventions to address this hidden turnout problem, to make sure that everybody is voting all the way down the ballot, then, especially if we target it to the right places, in the right ways, we can make majorities where we might have come up short before.
Mila Atmos: [00:21:38] Mhm. That's fascinating that people just don't finish filling out their ballot. I mean that sounds so crazy, honestly. But to be fair, you know, as I said, I vote in New York City and for Supreme Court judges in the state of New York, there are always these candidates... And in New York, they're all Democrats. And it says, you know, vote three of three. You know, there are only three candidates, so there's no
other choice. There are no Republicans running. I don't know who they are. And also because they're running unopposed, I kind of feel like, well, I guess I'll just fill this out, but I don't know who they are and I don't know what they stand for, and I don't know why I'm voting for them, but I think that's maybe how some people feel. Just throwing this out there -- that they're like, I don't know who this is and I'm not going to vote for that person.
Lala Wu: [00:22:21] Yeah. That's right. And so we're looking at a lot of different factors. And so we conducted focus groups as well as a large battleground state survey to better understand why it is that people are not voting down the ballot. And what we are finding is that the knowledge aspect is huge. There is also a confidence aspect. And so we're digging into the data to better understand are there differences along the lines of gender or race or party which we've already seen the party differences, but we are working on better understanding, "what is it about these down ballot races that is demotivating for people" or, you know, causes them to not vote. And another really interesting kind of finding that we are exploring is that people, you know, think about the federal races first, and they think about how, okay, what happens at the federal level is the most important. And that's what I need to pay attention to if I'm paying attention to anything. We all know that. But then interestingly, it goes down to local. You know, you're talking about New York City and a lot of people think about their mayor. They know who that is. They think about city council. They might understand that structure as well. But state legislatures seem to fall into this sort of strange in-between world where it's a little too abstract for people to understand why it matters. But this is such a shame and really needs to be addressed, because, as we discussed at the top of this episode, state legislatures are where so much of the impactful policy is really made where such an outsized impact can be had. So that's something that we are working on this year, planning to do some experiments in the primaries and key states and then deploying at scale in the general.
Mila Atmos: [00:24:19] Mm.hmm, although I will say I mean exactly to your point, a lot of people, it's very confusing to them. They don't understand it. Even today when I talk to people, even though it's become abundantly clear how much power states have in the wake of these anti-abortion laws being passed state by state, there's still a disconnect. So speaking of anti-abortion laws, what are the issues that most animate
people to turn up at the polls from the people that you've spoken to in the last few cycles? Or maybe going into 2024, what do you expect?
Lala Wu: [00:24:54] Abortion has to be at the top of the list. Ever since the earthquake of Dobbs, abortion has been a winning issue for Democrats. For so long, Republicans got away with advancing all kinds of extremist legislation, and they were never held to account. It was something they could use to drum up their bases, but they knew that they wouldn't really have to reckon with it, because Roe v Wade was there to protect abortion, at least in some basic way. But with that removed, suddenly Republicans need to face the reality of these extremist measures that they have been passing. You know, fetal funerals and six week bans and heartbeat bills and all of these things that people don't actually want. You know, abortion is something that has or will impact so many people in this country. Nearly everybody has someone who is affected or they are affected themselves. And so this issue is so deeply, deeply personal. And I think Republicans are going to be in quite a bind for some time on the abortion issue. At the same time, we can't run only on abortion. There are other issues that are extremely important to voters, and that we have to address and make sure we are messaging on and delivering policy on as well. The economy is one of those issues, even though I should say the economy is in one of the strongest positions that it has been for a really long time, President Biden has accomplished a tremendous amount in his policies. The Inflation Reduction Act is a landmark piece of climate legislation that is creating jobs at the state and local levels all across the country, and at the same time, inflation has slowed, but it is still something that hits people's pocketbooks. The stress, especially for folks who are in the middle class, is very, very real. And so we need to continue to do better to deliver on policy and to talk about these issues in a way that will help us win in 2024.
Mila Atmos: [00:27:15] So I know, of course, the whole point of winning legislative majorities is key to passing laws, implementing policies. And I'm wondering how your recent wins have changed the political landscape in terms of, is it starting to create a virtuous cycle? Like if you look at Michigan, Wisconsin saying, "we can do this too," you know, or Pennsylvania and Virginia. How do you think about it? And in these times, it's so difficult actually to hang on to your electoral victories. How is it playing out on the ground cycle to cycle?
Lala Wu: [00:27:53] Yes, a virtuous cycle is absolutely what we are striving for. And so you want to win the elections, you want to pass the legislation, and then you want to tell the story. And so that voters want to keep you in power so you can do even more of it. So we saw, for example, in Michigan, the first repeal of a so-called right to work law that was led by one of our alumni, Darrin Camilleri, who comes from a family of union workers and is a, is a teacher himself. This was the first in many, many years to pass. And we see that motivating other legislation across the country. The clearest example of this, perhaps, is Virginia back in 2019, when we helped to elect a Democratic trifecta. Then there was a cascade of progressive legislation that flowed forth, including banning the death penalty, passing their own Voting Rights Act when we couldn't get a federal Voting Rights Act through, legalizing recreational marijuana, setting more ambitious climate goals, expanding protections for abortion, and the list goes on. And so these are the types of gains that we are looking for and that we need to, I will admit, as an ecosystem, get better at showing off, get better at projecting out to folks, to telling that story, helping them understand that the changes that they are seeing in their lives, the positive ones, are really stemming directly from these elections.
Mila Atmos: [00:29:30] Yeah, you have to connect the dots. It's just too overwhelming, I think, with all the information that we're inundated with. But speaking of Virginia, when the race for governor was on, people were predicting that Glenn Youngkin would win for a while before he did, in fact, win. And I just thought to myself, My God, they worked so hard to get a trifecta in 2019 for this to be undone in this kind of election. And so I know that he ran really on CRT, which is not a thing, in high school or in middle school. But do you still see those kinds of talking points about CRT in state elections today? Because I think on the national level, it's really calmed down.
Lala Wu: [00:30:12] Yeah, I think that observation is correct, though we still see it on the state level. We still definitely see it on the local level as well. At that school board level, the fights continue. But I think what we should as progressives, as Democrats, as strategists, be thinking about is what's next, because Republicans always just are ready to pick the next fight, are always using state legislatures actually as a testing ground and a place to experiment with different lightning rods that might fire up their base. So, you know, recently it was CRT masking was part of that with Covid. There was also all of the anti-trans measures, and they've cycled through a lot of different styles of anti- trans measures as well, from bathroom bills or, you know, girl sports or when it comes
to preventing medical care, all kinds of things that they are trying to see what sticks and where they are really successful at experimenting with. All of this is in state legislatures.
Mila Atmos: [00:31:27] Right. Right. So what is the most important thing you'd like listeners to take away from our conversation today?
Lala Wu: [00:31:34] States matter! And so if you are not one of those people who votes all the way down the ballot, don't feel bad. Just start doing it. And, uh, you know, if you do have any time or money or talent to offer, the states are an incredible place to put that energy. Your time and your treasure will go so far in these close races that have such a huge impact on people's lives.
Mila Atmos: [00:32:07] I just want to remind the listener here, we had a conversation with Daniel Squadron of the States project, and he told us that basically $60 million was spread across the country in state races and managed to flip some races. Whereas, you know, when it comes to the presidential election, $60 million is a drop in the bucket. It's basically meaningless. But at the state level, it will work really hard. So speaking of taking civic action, voting all the way down the ballot, what are two things an everyday person can do to practice democracy at the state level this year?
Lala Wu: [00:32:42] The first is to look for state news, to pay attention to state news, to better understand who your legislators are. And what kinds of issues your legislature is taking up when you are scrolling to pay special attention to something that says not just, oh, what's going on in Congress or what latest chaos is happening with the House Republicans. But hey, what's going on in your state House? What's going on? What did the governor just sign? Because that kind of self-education and that expansion of your political diet will go really, really far. And second is to sign up for Sister District. If you're not involved already, you will be joining a community of passionate, smart, fun volunteers who can help you plug in to get involved in whatever way makes sense for your life and your schedule. Whether you want to host an event or just show up every now and then, or donate or make phone calls or travel to go knock on doors, we will help make that possible for you.
Mila Atmos: [00:33:55] Thank you. All that additionality that we should be doing, especially this year in 2024. So here's my last question. Looking into the future, what makes you hopeful?
Lala Wu: [00:34:08] When I think about our volunteers, I feel really hopeful when I think about the creativity and the dedication that they bring every single day to not just care about a state legislative race, but to care about state legislative races in other states. That makes me really, really hopeful, particularly when I see the effect that it has on candidates. You know, we grow really close relationships with our candidates. And when so many of them win, or even when they lose, we are one of the first conversations that the candidates have after the election results come in, and they so often tell us how much it means to them that there are people all across the country so invested in their state legislative race in their district and that kind of connection, that kind of dedication that really makes me hopeful.
Mila Atmos: [00:35:07] Yeah, that is hopeful. I'm really happy that you're doing this work, and I'm so excited that so many people will have a better opportunity to participate at state level politics, thanks to you. Thank you very much for joining us on Future Hindsight. It was really terrific to have you back on the show.
Lala Wu: [00:35:23] Thanks so much.
Mila Atmos: [00:35:25] Lala Wu is the co-founder and executive director of Sister District, an organization that works to elect Democrats and build enduring power at the state level.
Next week on Future Hindsight, we're joined by Deb Otis. She's the director of research and policy at Fairvote, a nonpartisan organization that researches and advances voting reforms that make democracy more functional and representative for every American.
Deb Otis: [00:35:57] The Fair Representation Act is a bill that would implement ranked choice voting for Congress, but also change the way we do our districts. So right now, we elect our Congress from 435 districts that each elect one person. And now these districts have some problems. It feels like we just finished a congressional redistricting cycle. We just finished the gerrymandering wars of the decade. But the redistricting
wars never end. It'll last for the full decade until we start again. And in a lot of these districts, they're drawn so that they are fully safe. For one party, 90% of congressional seats can be called two years before the election, two years before you even know who's going to be on the ballot, you know which party is going to hold that seat. This leaves a lot of voters feeling like our vote doesn't matter.
Mila Atmos: [00:36:43] That's next time on Future Hindsight.
And before I go, first of all, thanks for listening. You must really like the show. If you're still here, we have an ask of you. Could you rate us or leave a review on Apple Podcasts? It seems like a small thing, but it can make a huge difference for an independent show like ours. It's the main way other people can find out about the show. We really appreciate your help. Thank you.
This episode was produced by Zack Travis and me. Until next time, stay engaged. Democracy Group: [00:37:21] This podcast is part of the democracy Group.