Montana is a Bulwark: Ryan Busse
January 18th, 2024
“Virtually none of the things that I think most Americans care about happen without a vibrant, healthy, functioning democracy.”
Ryan Busse is a Democratic candidate for governor of Montana and the author of Gunfight: My Battle Against the Industry That Radicalized America. We discuss how Montana is a bulwark against anti-democratic forces and how Ryan cuts through the politi-speak on the campaign trail.
It's important for Democrats to identify with the basic democratic freedom values of the vast majority of people, whether that’s fair taxes on homeowners or reproductive freedom. Ryan argues that a vibrant democracy depends on both small d democratic values being represented and big D Democratic victories at the ballot box. The stakes are high to elect a pro-democracy governor in Montana. Montana is a bulwark in a sea of red state legislatures. Ryan says, “North Dakota and South Dakota used to have two Democratic senators and Democratic governors. Now there's not a single statewide elected Democrat in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho, and there's only one left in Montana, Jon Tester.”
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Credits:
Host: Mila Atmos
Guest: Ryan Busse
Executive Producer: Mila Atmos
Producer: Zack Travis
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Ryan Busse Transcript
Mila Atmos: [00:00:00] Thanks to Shopify for supporting Future Hindsight. Shopify is a platform designed for anyone to sell anywhere, giving entrepreneurs like us the resources once reserved for big business. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/hopeful. All lowercase.
Mila Atmos: [00:00:25] Welcome to Future Hindsight, a podcast that takes big ideas about civic life and democracy and turns them into action items for you and me. I'm Mila Atmos.
It's 2024 and the future of America is in your hands. We're here to bring you an independent perspective about the election this year, and help you unlock your power to change the status quo.
We started off the year with an episode about the importance of state races, and how it's at the state level that our votes work the hardest, where it's the most bang for buck, for our quality of life, and also for our freedoms. So we are thrilled to have a conversation with a candidate who's running for state office.
Our guest is no stranger to Future Hindsight. Ryan Busse is a Democratic candidate for Governor of Montana and is also the author of Gunfight: My Battle Against the Industry That Radicalized America. It is one of my favorite books to recommend for an accessible read on the transformation of the gun industry. We had him on the show back in 2022 when the book came out, and we're thrilled to have him with us again today.
Ryan, welcome back to Future Hindsight. Thank you for joining us.
Ryan Busse: [00:01:43] Yeah, thanks so much. I really appreciate that lead in. I've thought a lot about all of the stuff that's going on in our country, much of it from a national perspective. And I think it can feel pretty daunting to people. Like, what do you do about this? It's not like we can rush out and put on Supreme Court robes and become Supreme Court justices. Most of us, save just a just a few of us in D.C. So what is it that we we can rush out and do? And I think your focus on state races is really
important, and it's very pertinent to me. I looked at what is going on in our country, and I thought, well, there's a chance, a really good chance, as it turns out, that we can beat a really dangerous, what I think fascist and authoritarian, Republican incumbent governor here in Montana. And I thought that's about as much as I can do. And so I'm really pleased to be here, and I'm glad you're focusing on that. And I think everybody needs to look themselves in the mirror. Not everybody is going to run for governor. Not everybody's going to run for state House. But whatever it is you can do, you should decide now to stand up and do it.
Mila Atmos: [00:02:45] Hear. Hear. We totally agree. Of course, at Future Hindsight, we think that there's a lot you can do before running for office. There're so many things that are possible. But you know, you made a mention of this about the current governor in Montana, but what was the tipping point for you to get off the sidelines and run for governor?
Ryan Busse: [00:03:06] I've thought about running for office many other times and different races. I think that this one is the most important for me, and I guess a culmination of things tipped me over the edge. Much like other people that become active in politics or make life changes. This governor, his name is Greg Gianforte. He's the one that assaulted the reporter, Ben Jacobs, the day before the US House election, Special US House election, here a few years ago. So the very sort of genesis of Greg Gianforte entering the national limelight happened by him physically assaulting a member of the United States press corps. And that really, to me, has fascist overtones in it. Right. And the guy, Ben Jacobs, a reporter for The Guardian, was simply asking him a question about health care policy, and Gianforte didn't want to answer it. And so he literally attacked him, body-slammed him, assaulted him, threw him on the ground, beat him up. Feels pretty fascist to me. That's the way it starts. Eventually, he becomes elected as our governor in a very tumultuous year, 2020, when lots of stuff was in the air. So I, I caution people not to take too much from what happened in 2020. There were just too many variables in the experiment for us to really say, that's the way it's always going to be. But since that point, he has rolled back women's health care rights. He has threatened to hold constitutional conventions here and rewrite our constitution, which, by the way, Montana has one of the most beautiful constitutions anywhere in the world. It was rewritten in 1972, following an era in the state of really horrible corporatist exploitation of our state. There is a codified right to privacy in our Constitution. There is
a codified right to a clean and healthful environment in our Constitution. There is a codified right to equal public education in our Constitution. It's a beautiful document. And these guys don't like it because it's very democratic, small d democratic. And so you have him rolling back health care rights for women. You have him rolling back polling places and voting access to our Native American tribes. We have seven reservations in the state of Montana. I could go on and on. He's gutting public education, which I think is the backbone of our democracy, certainly for rural kids with no other option. Like me, I graduated with 16 kids. Without that public education opportunity, I don't know where any of us would be. And so it's a very anti-democratic kind of frontlines, we're out here fighting the battle for democracy against this slow roll or quickening roll of fascism. And I just couldn't take it anymore. My family and I sit around the table and talk about politics, and my kids are, you know, they're 18 and 15. They're active and energized about politics. And we finally decided if we really care about it as much as we say we do, it's time for me to get in and do something about it. So here we are.
Mila Atmos: [00:05:59] Yeah. So you are an unapologetic anti-fascist, and this is essentially your campaign to combat fascism in the state of Montana. I want to delve deeper into the issues, but before we do that, I thought, let's situate this race in the broader context of national elections, because after all, there will be a presidential election this year. Why does this race matter beyond Montana?
Ryan Busse: [00:06:26] I would want your listeners to know the leaders of the Republican Party have now openly embraced fascism. We shouldn't shy away from that. It's what's happening. If you want a vibrant Democratic party, we have to have strong elected Democrats in states other than the ones that touch oceans. We must have those. Traditionally, we have had that in Montana. It's been a purple state. In fact, out of the last 19 years, 16 of those have had Democrats in the governor's seat. We've had two Democratic senators. We still have one, Jon Tester. Montana really is a bulwark because think about North Dakota, South Dakota; used to have two Democratic senators, used to have Democratic governors. Now, there's not a single statewide elected Democrat in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Idaho. And there's only one left in Montana. And so I don't think you can count on a vibrant small d and large D Democratic sort of force in the nation and have these vast swaths of states just go totally off the map. It's not going to work. It's important that somebody stand up and
reframe the Democratic Party in places like this in ways that our populations in Western and, you know, I'll use air quotes here, flyover states. We must win elections here, and we must identify with our voters. And we must care enough about these things to win. And if we don't, you're going to continue to see House majorities, Senate majorities that embrace fascism. And I don't want to live in that country. So it's very critical. You know, what does a voter, an activist, a donor in Massachusetts going to do? Most of those seats are going to be blue. You should fight for democracy in a place like this, because it's these seats, these bulwarks, these movements, these groundswell of voters where the margins are made.
Mila Atmos: [00:08:20] Mhm. Yeah, I totally agree. Tell us a little bit more about purple politics values, because of course you just mentioned that Greg Gianforte was elected in 2020. And that was a very tricky time, of course, in the United States and elsewhere all over the world with Covid. Also, the Montana legislature is majority Republican. So what does purple values mean to you?
Ryan Busse: [00:08:43] That's an excellent question, and I will tell you that the values I'm running on, I believe, are held by 85% of Montanans and the vast majority of Americans. I've mentioned a couple, but I think that this idea that it's okay for one part of our population, mostly men, to strip the health care freedoms from another part of our population, women. That's fascist. I don't think a governor should sit in the doctor's office with women and tell them what they can and can't do with their most intimate health care decisions. And let's face it, national Republicans have been chasing that car for 50 years, and they've caught the car. And here they want to catch it even more. They want to catch the car and rip it apart. And I'm just not going to stand for that. And importantly here, I really believe that lots of Republican women think the same thing. They may not say it around their dinner table. They may not admit it to the folks in their life who are louder and more bombastic and more intimidating than they are. But they get in the voters booth, they do not want a governor sitting in their doctor's office with their 14 year old daughter. They don't. And that sort of is an extension of what I think purple politics looks like. It's important for Democrats to identify with the basic democratic freedom values of the vast majority of people. Democrats can get so wrapped around the axle about these particular divisive culture war issues and the vast majority of people. It's not that they don't care, but that's not what they vote on. It's not. It's not what rules their life, what rules their life are, you know, is the game being rigged
against working people by the wealthy and corporations? Newsflash! Yes, it is, and that affects everybody. Are people worried about their health care rights? Newsflash! Yes. You should be. That affects everybody. Our public school is being taken apart so that a few wealthy people can make money on privatization. Yes they are. And that affects everybody. Purple politics looks to me like a Democrat who cares enough to identify the most important values that we share and running on them, and not just saying they care, but acting like they care. Running like they care, governing like they care. Too often I think Democrats, their actions don't match the rhetoric. In other words, we say these things are ultimately important. And do we really campaign like it? Do we really govern like it? No. So I'm not shocked that we have disaffected voters who think that politicians don't really hold true to their word, because lots of times we don't. So it's about time that we do. And I'm convinced that when we do that, vast swaths of America are done with the radicalized 10 or 15% who are holding the mic and loading the AR 15 and trying to scare kids on corners. They're done with that shit.
Mila Atmos: [00:11:32] Hmm. Well, I hope you're right, but one thing that really stood out to me here is that most Montanans, in fact, most Americans, I think you're correct, really care about freedoms and rights and values. And one of those freedoms and values is, of course, democracy. And on your website, I note that your campaign actually makes that a platform and it doesn't show up in everybody's platform. And just for kicks, I looked at Republican Tanner Smith's website and his issues are public safety, constitutional values, taxes, energy independence, and education. But not to dump on Tanner Smith here. I think most Americans take democracy for granted; as a given. So why are you not taking democracy for granted and making it an official policy position?
Ryan Busse: [00:12:23] Virtually none of the things that I care about, virtually none of the things that I think most Americans care about, happen without a vibrant, healthy, functioning democracy. And so we must care and foster and feed and fuel the thing it is, that provides us with all these rights. I wrote a book about the gun industry. I spent 25 years inside the firearms industry. I'm a proud gun owner. I'm a proud Second Amendment advocate. I hunt and shoot with my boys. I believe in the right to self- defense. At the same time, I believe that our rights must be balanced with commensurate responsibilities, and I think our balance is way out of whack, and some of that out of balance is threatening our democracy. And do we really think that if our
country devolves into some bloody civil war, that somebody is going to be standing around saying, oh gosh, your Second Amendment rights are protected? No, there are not going to be any rights. It's going to be the powerful against those who aren't powerful. That's not a democracy. And so we need to understand that to protect the rights and freedoms that we so value, we better care about the democracy. We better. That's where they come from.
Mila Atmos: [00:13:37] Mhm. Yeah. That's very well put. I think that is indeed a big disconnect that people don't understand that if it goes, if your rights go, that includes the Second Amendment. Right. It's really like you said, just one overpowering party that will...
Ryan Busse: [00:13:52] Do you really think when some mob of ruffians with a bunch of ARs shows up and steals your gun from you in the Civil War, you really think you're going to march down to the attorney's office and file a civil rights action so you can get your Second Amendment rights back? That ain't the way this works, right? That's not that's not the way Civil War works.
Mila Atmos: [00:14:08] Yeah. It's not.
Mila Atmos: [00:14:11] We're going to take a quick break to thank our sponsor, Shopify. And when we come back, we'll continue talking about the culture wars and how Ryan is cutting through the noise with straight talk about the stakes and where he stands on the issues.
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And now let's return to my conversation with Ryan Busse.
Mila Atmos: [00:16:28] Well I want to pivot back here to abortion because obviously that is a big topic in Montana as well, where the culture war continues to be fought just like everywhere else. And Governor Gianforte signed a bill to restrict abortion rights in May of 2023. And in early December, some Missouri Republicans proposed a bill to allow murder charges against women who get abortions. This was so incendiary that the bill has been withdrawn. But for sure, this is a chilling development in the ongoing Republican agenda to outlaw abortion. And like you said, they have caught that car. But what's your perspective here in terms of how you think it's going to continue to play out in the state of Montana?
Ryan Busse: [00:17:09] First off, we live next door to Idaho, which second to Texas -- and I know Missouri is in the running here for the most egregiously anti-freedom and anti-woman state in the unions. Like they're all in a competition together. But Idaho is a close second to Texas. And for those who don't remember, Texas has essentially criminalized women for even needing abortions when they risk the life of the mother. We recently had a case where a Texas woman had to fly out of state and was still threatened criminally. Because of that, Idaho is doing the same thing. They're obviously right next to us. When Margaret Atwood wrote The Handmaid's Tale, she said that everything she wrote in that book, none of it was fiction. She didn't write a fictional book. She wrote a book about examples that have happened in society. So this isn't like the Republicans here are trying to impose some fictional idea. They're trying to impose an idea that has been imposed in other states and other places in this world. And do I think that Greg Gianforte and this Republican supermajority want to criminalize women for
even considering abortion? Yes, I do, and I don't believe that the majority of Montanans believe in that. I think they recoil from it. But until Democrats stand up and force the choice, until we say these are the stark decisions you have to make, instead of hiding from them. Instead of saying, well, "I'm pro-choice. Next question." No. Lay out the ramifications. Lay out what will happen. Highlight what they've said they will do because they will. Gianforte on May 3rd, as you noted, stood in front of a bunch of his supporters and celebrated Senate Bill 154 and Senate Bill 154 clearly lays out their plan to strip the right to privacy from our Constitution. So don't take my word for it. Take their word for it. Why would you doubt that? They say they want to strip the right to privacy from our Constitution. They have said that's what they want to do. Democrats better stand up and remind people of that. And they better ask people, people to make those choices.
Mila Atmos: [00:19:06] Yeah, well, I like the way that you're communicating. You know, you're really just punching the dog in the nose here. And I wonder, in a state like Montana, which you said still espouses purple values but does have a Republican majority in the legislature, how do you make the stakes so plain to the voters, you know, not only to underscore what you stand for, but to compel people to come out and vote for you? And in your experience, now that you've had some campaigning under your belt, what has been the most successful way to communicate with the electorate?
Ryan Busse: [00:19:40] I'll give you two answers to that one. Be direct. Answer questions. Don't use polished politico, careful Bullshittery speak like most other politicians use voters. Citizens -- they're tired of it. Like, take the question, answer it. That's just who I am. But I think it's really important that we speak and communicate like common people do. Not like some political Robotrons do, like we see so often. Secondarily, I think it's very critical that we lay out the stakes. Democrats most oftentimes let their brand be defined by somebody else and let those same people define the Republican brand. So no surprise that voters are kind of confused about what the Democratic brand is. Democrats don't spend a lot of time, you know, laying into it. I will, and I will because the choices are so incredibly -- on the Republican side -- they're so incredibly dangerous. When they say they want less voter access for Native Americans, I take them at their word. When they say they want to strip health care rights from women, I take them at their word. When they say they want to privatize public schools, I take them at their word. We should remind everybody of that. So I guess two things: be direct and remind people what's at stake.
Mila Atmos: [00:20:58] Hmm hmm. You just mentioned that they want to restrict political access to indigenous peoples in Montana.
Ryan Busse: [00:21:07] And young people.
Mila Atmos: [00:21:08] And young people. And, and so one of your official platforms actually is to ensure that if you were to be elected to office, that your administration would be adequately represented by Indigenous people. Tell us a little bit more about that, because this is, again, an unusual platform. And so how do you plan on achieving this?
Ryan Busse: [00:21:28] In past Democratic administrations, for instance, Governor Schweitzer's administration. He was Democratic governor here for eight years, two terms. And he made sure that on every board, in every place possible that our Native American peoples were represented in the same way, if not more than what they are in our population. Native Americans make up somewhere between 8 and 10% of our population. In Montana, they were our first residents. They are sovereign nations. They deserve representation in our state government. We have a governor now who has done everything he can to de-emphasize and to not represent Native Americans on boards and committees and commissions and all the sorts of things where decisions are made and policies are crafted for the state. That's anti-democratic in and of itself. You essentially alienate and shut out 10% of our population, and they were the first peoples here. So I hate to say that that's like a low bar, but it seems to me to be a low bar. What is so hard about making sure that our Native Americans are properly represented on boards and commissions and leadership and all the places that the governor appoints things? To me, that's just a basic decency democratic idea.
Mila Atmos: [00:22:40] Um hum. Well, speaking of land and the first populations, I know another hot button issue is access to public lands. And you wrote about your love of Badger-Two Medicine in your book and your efforts to protect it from drilling. This is, in fact, an issue across the nation. Just to remind the listener, we spoke about housing recently with Shaun Donovan, who was the HUD secretary under Obama, and we also spoke about land use last summer with Layla Law-Gisiko, who chairs the Committee on
Land Use in Manhattan's Community Board 5. So real estate animates people everywhere across the country. What are the forces at play in Montana?
Ryan Busse: [00:23:24] So Montana is a place where our lifestyles are really, for most people, are really entwined with the land, with our rivers, with our public lands, with the things that we do. We accept struggle and volatile weather. We're in the middle of some cold weather here, finally, and people accept that because of our love largely for our publicly owned -- and people say those are government owned lands, those are not government owned lands, they're publicly owned lands. They are lands that we all own. The state, meaning the people of the state owned lots of lands here, and there are lots of federal lands, meaning the entire population of the United States own them. And they're managed by the federal government. And our access to those hunting, hiking, skiing, fishing, all the things that Montanans love so much that are so important to us are extremely important. Our rivers. We have a beautiful river access law. It's one of the most open liberal access laws in the United States, meaning all citizens of all types, no matter who you are, can get on those rivers and float and fish. And that's an incredibly democratic idea if you think about it. In the United States, we decided the people are going to own these things. The people are going to have access to them. And this was largely codified under Teddy Roosevelt's administration. Since that time, you've had the forces of corporatization and wealthy people trying to limit that access and monetize that access against the people like us who believe in him. And yes, some of them are for livelihoods, logging and mining and those sorts of things. But there's lots of other accesses that are important to us and other intrinsic ways hunting, fishing, hiking, the things that make our lives whole. And so it's a century old battle and it's heating up. Here we have a governor who, in my opinion, believes that everything about Montana should just be monetized. Every tree and rock and river, everything should be sold, everything should be developed. And eventually you'll have a few wealthy people who control everything. And that beautiful democratization about public lands will have disappeared. I don't believe in that. And neither do I think that the vast majority of Montanans believe in that. So again, this is another place where I think Democrats need to stand up, force the choice, lay out what's at stake, and I plan on doing that.
Mila Atmos: [00:25:38] Hmm. So when you go to campaign events and you talk about this, what's the response from the audience?
Ryan Busse: [00:25:46] It's been amazing. It's been humbling. It's been shocking to me. We hoped that when we began this race, that the race would feel a lot more like a movement than it does a campaign, and that's precisely the way it feels. We hold open events, and this is different than certainly different than Greg Gianforte, who won't hold an open event and won't speak to the populace. We don't hold these invitation only, closed door... Like we open them up. I will say to the people who show up there or to the people at a closed door fundraiser, I say the same thing. I don't have two different messages. And so we have non-sponsored events. So it's not like we have a bunch of people banging doors to get people to show up. And like 150 people will show up on a Tuesday afternoon at a bar in Bozeman. They'll have to open up outdoor seating, and it's 30 degrees. When we take the names of these folks, we ask them to sign in half or two thirds of them never been in a political event in their life. They're not in any database. They're just showing up because they feel the same sort of angst and worry that I do. And so they're worried and they're fearful, but they're happy to be in a movement that feels like somebody is finally going to do something about it. Look, campaigning is hard work. Anybody that tells you it's not, is lying. I've driven almost 11,000 miles since September 14th. I don't even know how many dozens of events have held. I've literally lost count of them. But every time we do this, we just blow the doors off. And it's it's super humbling and exciting to think that people are caring about the democracy and have to show up and do that.
Mila Atmos: [00:27:15] So for the benefit of the listener, if they're living in Montana, or even if they're just passing through, if they want to attend one of your events, how can they find one?
Ryan Busse: [00:27:25] Just follow us on social media. Busse for Montana. You know, you can see my Instagram page. Go to Busseformontana.com and all our social media links are there. You can follow me on Twitter. I refuse to call it X. You can follow me on Instagram. You can follow our Facebook page which is BusseforMontana. We love for people of all stripes to show up. I mean, we have single moms and carpenters and retired folks and college. Like what gubernatorial race has tables of college students showing up a year out from the election? We have that almost every time. And I think it's because finally, there's a candidate who will lay out the stakes, like we've talked about a few times here today, who's not shying away from how serious all of this stuff is. It's fun and exciting and also very serious all at the same time, because I think this
battle that we're engaged in, especially in this year, in 2024, across the country and in places like this, it's a fight for the heart of our democracy, really is.
Mila Atmos: [00:28:19] Um hum. Yeah. I want to pivot back to some of the issues here. Conversation about land in Montana would not be complete without also talking about the climate. Your sons were part of a constitutional climate lawsuit brought by 16 Montana youth against the state to protect their equal rights to a healthy environment, life, dignity and freedom. And it was a win for them. But in practical terms, what does that mean for the future of Montana?
Ryan Busse: [00:28:49] My boys were two of the 16 litigants in the held versus Montana case. It's a case where 16 kids brought suit against the state for not holding to their constitutional rights of a clean and healthful environment. And that's Article Nine in our Constitution, that's written into our Constitution. It's a beautiful thing. And I was in the courtroom for every day of that trial, and the trial began in such an awesome way. And it really weaves into this whole idea of democracy and all these other constitutional cases that you hear in the United States. People are often guessing at like, what are the framers think? What did Alexander Hamilton think? Gosh, we don't know. We have to guess. What do they mean by these words? Well, in this case, there are nine framers of the Montana Constitution still alive from that 1972 convention and the one that wrote article nine, which is the right to a clean and healthful environment. Her name is Mae Nan Ellingson. She was 24 at the time, and the first witness in the case was Mae Nan. And she sat down for two hours and explained to every single person in a very packed courtroom exactly what that Montana Constitution means. And nobody could doubt her because she wrote it. And so that's a pretty powerful way to start a trial like that. And I look at these kids as just constitutional conservatives. All they're doing is standing up for the rights that are enumerated to them in the Constitution. In practical terms, what that means to the exact point of your question is that the state must consider CO2 and global warming in its decisions in permitting and in its larger extractive decisions. And the state, including Gianforte, that I'm running against, have passed laws that literally say CO2 and climate change cannot be considered. They pass this law right before this case cannot be considered in any permitting decision like they outlawed it. If that doesn't sound anti-democratic, what does? And so the practical terms of this is now we will have to, as a state, essentially rethink everything that we do with regards to permitting and how we create our energy future going forward. With CO2 and climate
change in mind. Doesn't seem like a radical thing to me. If you're a farmer and there's a drought coming, or you're in the middle of the drought, to sit around and pretend that the drought isn't happening seems like a recipe for complete disaster. So all of this case does is say you have to recognize reality. That's it.
Mila Atmos: [00:31:19] I like the way that you put that. Also, you know, you have spoken out several times about the Montana Constitution, which sounds totally awesome. So now that you have met a lot of people and so many young people show up and you have spoken about the rights in the Constitution in the state of Montana for everyday Montanans, what do you consider to be the most popular issue, a winning issue for you that will get people to come out and vote?
Ryan Busse: [00:31:50] I think it's a combination of the things that we've talked about here today. There's a larger theme that everybody I meet, everybody in the state, one corner to the other, and it's a damn big state. You can drive 12 or 13 hours and not leave the state. And I mean drive fast for 12 or 13 hours and not leave the state. So it's a big place. I was on a campaign event just not very long ago. It was 644 miles from that event to my front door, and I wasn't even close to being out of the state. I've seen lots of people and lots of country, and I love it all, but I think there's this large idea and large angst in the state from everybody that essentially goes something like this: moneyed, corporatized, anti-democratic forces are being given every advantage in the world and working people, people that have to make a living and buy homes and all the advantages being stripped from them. And there is this real populist angst that says these few corporate anti-democratic people cannot be allowed to take our state from us. And then that manifests itself in specific policy ways. But the larger picture is the same. No matter where I go in eastern Montana, where it's largely agricultural, ranchers and farmers feel this because there was only 2 or 3 big agribusiness companies that control most of the grain transfer most chemicals. There's only three big meat processing plants, and you have all these ranches over there. And so these... All of these family farms feel like there's these very few corporatized forces that are controlling their entire destiny and taking their Montana from them. In western Montana, we have this housing crisis where tax advantages are being given to the wealthy and corporations, and average people can't afford to buy or rent a house. Nurses and teachers are leaving because they can't afford to be here. So you have everything that's important to the average working person is threatened public lands, public education, our health care
rights, Medicaid expansion, which is a big deal here. Gianforte has kicked 120 some thousand people off of Medicaid and then has basically scuttled state government and won't let them back on. And these working people have to have that Medicaid coverage or they can't go back to work. They spend time even trying to get their kids reapplied. So every little advantage for the working people is threatened. And I think that really goes to the heart of that's how they're taking apart the democracy. They're taking apart working people and average people that want to live in the state. They're just making it almost impossible for it to happen.
Mila Atmos: [00:34:10] So do you feel from going to these events that you have bipartisan interest? Let's say that even Republicans in the state come and check you out?
Ryan Busse: [00:34:23] Huge. And this is a little bit of inside baseball, but I'll boil it down real quick and you can understand how this happens. Like a lot of state legislatures, ours started off with a big surplus, $2.8 billion. And most of that was federal money. Frankly, all states did because it was a bunch of federal Covid money that flowed into all these states. We have a legislative session every two years. So this supermajority and this governor, they take all this money and what do they do with it? They make sure that they give it away to huge corporations and to the wealthiest people. So they blow all that surplus, giving it to the wealthy people and corporations. Then because it's blown holes in the budget and because they have to fund things, they raise property taxes on every single Montana homeowner. So these bajillionaires, these huge corporations, these wealthy people, they all get tax cuts. Everybody else, they get a property tax increase. And then when they get caught, Gianforte says, well, that's the county's fault and the schools' fault, because that's where some of the state money is spent. And almost every county commission in the state is Republican. And do you want to see a bunch of upset, mad as-a-hornet people? Tell these conservative Republican county commissioners that they're the reasons taxes went up. They're not the reason. The governor is the reason. So I walk into meetings where these very conservative county commissioners are, and they cannot stand what is going on. In fact, some of them are angry about it and more worried about it than I am. They're very upset. And so, yes, there is this kind of strange bedfellow coalition of people across the state, including lots of Republicans that are very, very upset about this. Yep, I see it all the time.
Mila Atmos: [00:36:04] Wow. Fascinating. So is there an issue that you hear about at these meetings that you have not included in your platform, or that you're just surprised to hear about?
Ryan Busse: [00:36:16] So it's not, um, specifically in my platform, but the property tax thing again, it's it's sort of an inside baseball little state thing. But I'm surprised at the anger and the universal vitriol about it from all angles, from college kids that can't afford their rent, to conservative county commissioners who supported Gianforte and fundraised for him last time, who can't stand him now. I'm surprised at the way that issue codifies this larger value. I'm not a big believer in politicians running on specific issues because I think generally issues divide, except for this one. This one confirms what this larger value that everybody has already been feeling like, "oh crap, the wealthy have been given advantages and we're getting run out of the state." This property tax thing codifies that to people. And so I'm surprised at how heavy and sticky that is for everybody that I run into.
Mila Atmos: [00:37:09] Hmm. So are you committed to lowering property taxes than if you are elected governor?
Ryan Busse: [00:37:15] Yeah, I'm committed to rebalancing our property taxes. And the reason they had to raise property taxes is because they gave property tax breaks to big corporations and the wealthy. So we got to rebalance that, right. We've got to pull the tax burden off of homeowners and renters. And we got to spread it back out along the top of our tax brackets. Right. So yes, I'm committed to doing whatever it takes to to make it, I call it tax fairness. It's not that we're not going to have any taxes, we are going to have taxes. But the way that this has been unbalanced is just totally unfair to working people in Montana. It's it's terrible.
Mila Atmos: [00:37:48] Um hum. Well said. So what are two things an everyday citizen could do to protect and indeed strengthen democracy at the state level?
Ryan Busse: [00:38:00] I think those are great questions. And I would say, one: consider what's at the top of your capabilities and then really consider doing it. That might be volunteering on a phone bank and calling for a candidate that you want to get
elected. That might be sending a check in to a candidate you want to get elected, that might be running for office or county commission or school board. It might be running for state Senate or state House. For me, it was running for governor. I think that's the top of my capability. I think that I'm called to do that. And I think if we care about the democracy, we should look ourselves in the mirror and think, what can I do? How far can I go? And let's commit to doing that. The other one is to not, I think, for everybody in this state and in every state, to stop accepting the idea that this radicalized minority pushes on us. And there is this radicalized minority, certainly in our country, certainly in Montana. But I think in most states, and I really believe there are only 10 or 15% of the population. But the reason that they carry loaded guns up and down streets to scare kids are the reason they scream loud at school board meetings, or the reason they call people names on Twitter or trolls because there's not very many of them. They're fragile. They're freaking loud. They're scary. But there's not very many of them. And I think if just a few more of us would push on this thing, I think of it like an old West movie scene, like you walk into and it looks like a town, but if you push on it, the walls just fall down. You know? It's just this facade up there. I don't think it's going to take very many more of us to push on this and call bullshit on them. I think they're fragile, and I don't think there's as many of them as they want us to think. Otherwise they wouldn't have to act like they do. So I just call on everybody to do that. And that might be with your uncle Bob. It might be a dude you meet playing basketball at the gym. I don't know where it's going to be, but push on it.
Mila Atmos: [00:39:47] Interesting perspective. I like it. Speaking of pushing back and making things better, looking into the future, what makes you hopeful?
Ryan Busse: [00:39:59] I guess this campaign really does make me hopeful. Again, campaigning is hard. It's hard on a family. It's hard on me. It's hard on anybody that does it. But I hop out of the truck and I walk into these events, and here's 154 people standing there, all of them who you would think they have better things to do. They don't. They're there. They care; like, people care. That gives me hope. I think it's incumbent on candidates to connect with these people, but to see how how much people care about the state and taking back the state from these people, that really does give me hope. I think it's a damn frightening time to live in America. But I think the way that the threats to our country and to our states and to our lives are manifesting in motivated people should be a sign of hope.
Mila Atmos: [00:40:43] Well, for sure, from everything that you've said today, your campaign gives me hope too, and I wish you the very best of luck in this election. Thank you so much for joining us on Future Hindsight.
Ryan Busse: [00:40:55] Yeah, thanks for the work you do. It's super important. Really appreciate it.
Mila Atmos: [00:40:58] Thank you. Ryan Busse is a Democratic candidate for governor in Montana and also the author of Gunfight: My Battle Against the Industry That Radicalized America.
Next week on Future Hindsight, we're joined by Marietje Schaake. She is International Policy Director at Stanford University's Cyber Policy Center, International Policy Fellow at Stanford's Institute for Human Centered Artificial Intelligence, and also serves on the UN's AI Advisory board.
Marietje Schaake: [00:41:33] The question of AI is really also how this latest layer of technological development exacerbates some of the problems that we have with privatized governance of our information and democratic sphere. And it is really the result of years, if not decades, of public policy, particularly in the United States, because there are some unique characteristics of the United States that we should look at. One is, of course, the power of Silicon Valley companies. That's where some of the world's biggest tech companies reside. And it's in that jurisdiction that policy matters the most. And it's both Democratic and Republican administrations that have chosen to trust market forces more, than intervening to put on some guardrails for the sake of preventing discrimination, making sure that democracy is preserved, and so on.
Mila Atmos: [00:42:26] That's next time on Future Hindsight.
And before I go, first of all, thanks for listening. You must really like the show. If you're still here, we have an ask of you. Could you rate us or leave a review on Apple Podcasts? It seems like a small thing, but it can make a huge difference for an independent show like ours. It's the main way other people can find out about the show. We really appreciate your help. Thank you.
This episode was produced by Zack Travis and me. Until next time, stay engaged. The Democracy Group: [00:43:08] This podcast is part of the democracy Group.