The Asian-American Vote: Sung Yeon Choimorrow

JUNE 16, 2022

“Build power with Asian American Pacific Islander women and girls, so that we're able to create systemic change.”

Sung Yeon Choimorrow is the executive director of the National Asian Pacific American Women’s Forum, whose mission is to elevate AAPI women and girls to impact policy and drive systemic change in the United States. We discuss age-old and hardened stereotypes, changing the narrative about who Asian-Americans are, and activating Asian communities to take civic action.

The term model minority was coined by a white sociologist to pit Japanese Americans against Black Americans. Many Asian-Americans have used the model minority myth to protect them, though in the end, it does not insulate them from discrimination and racism. In fact, the objectification of Asian women for entertainment persists, and Asian-Americans are perpetually seen as foreign. 

Follow Sung Yeon on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/schoimorrow

Follow Mila on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/milaatmos 

Follow Future Hindsight on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/futurehindsightpod/

Sponsors
Thanks to Avast for supporting Future Hindsight! Go to avast.com to learn more about Avast One!

Love Future Hindsight? Take our Listener Survey!
http://survey.podtrac.com/start-survey.aspx?pubid=6tI0Zi1e78vq&ver=standard 

Want to support the show and get it early?
https://patreon.com/futurehindsight 

Check out the Future Hindsight website!
www.futurehindsight.com 

Credits:

Host: Mila Atmos 
Guest: Sung Yeon Choimorrow
Executive Producer: Mila Atmos
Producers: Zack Travis and Sara Burningham

• Transcript

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow Transcript

  Mila Atmos: [00:00:00] Thanks to Avast for supporting Future Hindsight. Avast's new all-in-one solution, Avast One, helps you take control of your safety and privacy online through a range of features. Learn more about Avast One at Avast.com.

  Mila Atmos: [00:00:19] Welcome to Future Hindsight, a podcast that takes big ideas about civic life and democracy and turns them into action items for you and me. I'm Mila Atmos. I've lived in this country for more than three decades, and over the years, while filling out official forms to categorize my identity, I never knew which box to check. I used to check "other" quite a lot at one point. And this is a little embarrassing: I would tick Pacific Islander because I was taking it very literally and Java, the island I'm from in Indonesia, is indeed in the Pacific. When I got to college, the Asian student societies never seemed to be for people like me. They celebrated Chinese New Year, and the members were mostly Chinese-American students. It wasn't until I became an American citizen that my identity became solidly hyphenated. I became an Asian-American. But how does this category that I'm in, this identity that I've evolved to claim as my own as an Asian-American woman? How does this category play into my participation in civic life? Are we a bloc? Are we a group with shared goals and values? I've been thinking about how a show on civic engagement that is hosted by an Asian-American can be a place for a conversation that enriches our common understanding about what it means to walk in the US with Asian skin, and beyond that, the role all of us can play, Asians and non-Asians, in weaving our diversity into a cohesive democracy. Our guest today, Sung Yeon Choimorrow, is the executive director of the National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum or NAPAWF. Sung Yeon, welcome to Future Hindsight. Thank you for joining us.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:02:10] Thank you so much for having me.

  Mila Atmos: [00:02:11] So to start, tell us a little bit about the goals and mission of

  NAPAWF.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:02:16] Sure. So the National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum, which we go by NAPAWF, was founded 25 years ago by a group of Asian-American women after the Beijing United Nations Conference on Women, which

  happened the year before, where many of these women realized that at the conference itself that there, as you mentioned earlier, hyphenated or two part or bicultural identity wasn't fully seen and accepted. And so, they came back from that conference feeling like they went as part of the U.S. delegation, yet Americans didn't see them as Americans. And in fact, some of the women were even told, "oh, you're Korean- American, you should join the Korean delegation," sort of perpetuating this constant, perpetual foreigner stereotype about us. And so these women came back, actually, 100 of them in fact, and had a conference of their own in L.A. and decided to create an organization that would be for us Asian-American Pacific Islander women living in the United States to amplify issues that impact us.

  Mila Atmos: [00:03:25] I kind of want to back up a little bit, since you mentioned that, you know, some people say, "well, you're Korean-American, so why don't you join the Korean delegation?" Do you want to try to define what it means to be Asian-American and what it means to you?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:03:38] Sure. I can tell you what it means to me. So as you mentioned, the concept of this idea that there is quote unquote, Asians, is very flawed. It is the largest continent in the world with the most diverse population, with the most number of languages and ethnic groups. And so this idea that we're going to distill it all down to this one word called Asian seems flawed. And yet that's a category that's been created for our, you know, census in the United States. And so much of resources that are delegated and decisions that are made regarding government resources are based on this thing called the census. And so I think for me, it's about the utility of the word rather than really more of a personal identity. I embrace it as a way to identify with other people who I can build power with. We can say we are a bloc that we, you know, by increasing our count in that category, we're able to get more resources to our community, get our foot in the door, and then to explain Asian isn't really a thing. We need language resources in 15 languages. You can't just say, pick one Asian language. The way we get treated is as if Asia is a country. But once we can get a foot in the door and get recognized to say, yes, you have a large Asian-American population in your district or in your state, then we can have further conversations about the nuances and how our community needs to be addressed and met in our various diversities.

  Mila Atmos: [00:05:17] So what are the origins of Asian-American as a term? Because you mentioned the census, and really it's a way of at least building power as a bloc, but in a way, it's really imposed from the outside, right?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:05:32] Oh, it's imposed by white people, white Americans. They came up with this category as a way to count people that generally look like, I don't know, I guess from Asia, whatever that means. Because, again, you know, there are blue-eyed, blond-haired Asians and there are very dark skinned, curly haired Asian. I mean, we kind of run the gamut in terms of the way our features look. But it was a way for for the U.S. government to categorize a group of people where they didn't know how to categorize them. Right. There's a camp of people who really would like for us to rid of that identity or that term altogether and identifying the ways that we want to identify. Like, why do we want to continue to use this term that really doesn't reflect who we are and the values we hold. And again, to me, it's really about getting the foot in the door so that we can have the more nuanced, complicated conversation if we're not even seen at all. Right. If we're not even on the map, how are we going to have those conversations to begin with? And so I think it's not necessarily ideal, but it is what we have and it's not ideal because we're not the ones who created it. It was imposed on us, as you said.

  Mila Atmos: [00:06:44] Well, it's interesting you say that the approach here is to just get in the door and at least be a part of the conversation and then reshape the conversation from the inside. Well, while we're doing that right here, I want to also take this opportunity to smash the model minority myth and maybe also talk about how damaging it has been. What are your thoughts here?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:07:02] So I think one thing that a lot of people don't realize is that the term Model Minority was coined by a white sociologist who wrote an article for Time magazine back I think it was in earl, late fifties or early sixties, essentially comparing Japanese-Americans to Black Americans, to African Americans. It was comparing Japanese Americans and why they are the model minority, because they have these nuclear families and they work hard. I mean, you should read that article, the origins of Model Minority, the term, because it is pretty ridiculous and it was a way to put a wedge between different races of people. Right. And I think what Asian- Americans in general have done is bought into that idea that let's use that to our

  advantage. We are seen as the, quote unquote, likeable minority. And therefore, as long as we can mimic and be as close to whiteness as we can, we will be successful in this country and we will accomplish and achieve our American Dream, which is another, in my opinion, false myth that we all fall into the trap of somehow if we work hard enough, we can accomplish it. Whereas I believe that there are systemic barriers in this country that allow some people to be able to accomplish the American dream more successfully and not others. So when you look at the Asian American population, for me the challenge is and the thing that really makes me frustrated is that the model minority myth does advantage certain ones of us, especially East Asians. So we've run with it. We've been told, and I say because I'm Korean-American myself, that, you know, you come here, you put your head down, don't ruffle feathers, work hard, study hard, go to Ivy League school, become a lawyer, become a doctor. There you go. You've accomplished it. American Dream. Not realizing that there are others in our community who have come in similar ways, who have not been given the same benefit of doubt, seeing the advantage because their skin is darker, because they're not East Asian, they don't have the connections. They don't come with, you know, the resources from home. When you look at the history of Asian Americans and how we've come here, sometimes it's for economic opportunities. And then we also have refugees. We have a wide range, yet because we're all seen as this quote unquote model minority, all successful, all making lots of money, having graduated from these fancy schools and with fancy jobs, that our community continues to be disadvantaged in resources being invested in our community so that those that don't have those opportunities off the bat are able to have them and gain them. This is one of the things that NAPAWF really works on is dispelling the model minority myth, that we are not your submissive, quiet, follow the rule, smart whiz kids. And I think that over the last couple of years especially has come to light that we see that it's not enough to mimic and be close to whiteness as much as possible, or just follow the rules, quote unquote, the rules that help you become successful. And we know that Asian-Americans have, you know, been victims of systemic racism historically as well. And we try to sweep that under the rug because we have this idea that the model minority myth is going to save us. And it's not.

  Mila Atmos: [00:10:29] Yes, for sure. I have lived under that same model for many, many years, all of my life. And I guess it's really hard to shake, though, right, if you're Asian and you live here. You know, I feel like personally, I continually feel that I have to keep my nose to the grindstone and perform, you know. And and although, of course,

  I'm not in school, I still feel like I need to get straight A's. I mean, I think that feeling hasn't gone away.

  Mila Atmos: [00:10:55] We're taking a short break to thank our sponsor. And when we come back, we're busting the model minority myth. But is the category Asian-American also a myth? That's after these messages. Thanks Avast for supporting the show. Avast is a global leader in cybersecurity for more than 30 years and trusted by over 435 million users. Avast empowers you with digital safety and privacy. No matter who you are, where you are, or how you connect, enjoy the opportunities that come with being connected, on your terms. Avast's new all-in-one solution, Avast One, helps you take control of your safety and privacy online through a range of features. Learn more about Avast one at Avast.com. Avast's Data Breach Monitoring finds out if your online accounts have been compromised or your passwords need to be changed. Avast's Firewall Protection prevents attacks trying to access your computer or steal our data. Avast's Ransomware Protection keeps your personal photos, documents and other files from being changed or deleted. I'm personally a fan of Avast's Antivirus feature, which stops viruses and malware from harming your devices, and Avast's Smart

  Scan finds and removes viruses and fixes the most common issues through this optimization scan. Free and premium versions are available. Avast prevents over 1.5 billion attacks every month, and with Avast One, you can confidently take control of your online world without worrying about viruses, phishing attacks, ransomware hacking attempts and other cyber crimes. Learn more about Avast One at Avast.com.

  Mila Atmos: [00:12:39] We also want to share about a new podcast. The next time you order up some calamari, stop for a minute and think, where does this actually come from? This summer, Foreign Policy is partnering with the Walton Family Foundation to bring you a new podcast, The Catch. Each episode offers a behind-the-scenes look at the current state of global fishing by tracking squid from the waters off the coast of Peru to the processing plants, all the way to the restaurants. And finally, your plate. Join us as we learn what squid tells us about the state of our oceans. Follow and listen to The Catch wherever you get your podcasts.

  Mila Atmos: [00:13:17] And now let's return to our conversation with Sung Yeon Choimorrow. But you talk a lot about diversity, and that's something that I alluded to in the introduction that, you know, being Asian on campus, for example, I always felt like,

  oh, but I'm not like other Asians. First of all, because I was an international student, I really felt like, well, I'm not American, so I'm not quite sure why I would be making community with these people. That makes no sense to me. Right. And I think that this is something that's also true, even if you're American and you have grown up here, but your ethnic background is different from other Asians. I'd love to hear your thoughts about really how diverse we are. You know, you said that there are some Asians who are blond with blue eyes and some are classic East Asian looking. And then there are some who, of course, are dark and have curly hair and how we can actually come together as a bloc, because at the end of the day, maybe that's our only chance in building power.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:14:14] Yeah. So, you know, I like to think about in broader terms what it means to be a non-white person in this country or to not fully benefit from white supremacy, because that's ultimately what this is all about. It is really about the fact that we are living in a country that was established in a hierarchy where originally Black folks, non-white people weren't considered people, and they were considered 3/5 people. We live in a country where that language has been used to describe people and completely erase people of dignity. And so I want to start with where we have commonality. And I think this is what's really hard is that so many Asian Americans don't want to associate ourselves with other people of color because, again, buying into the model minority myth, they want to be more like white people than be like other people of color. But the reality is, when we look at our history in this country at not not even that far. Look at the last two years and even before that with the atrocious treatment of South Asians, Muslims, and Middle Easterners after 9/11, right, the way Sikh Americans have been attacked. We cannot deny that there is something shared about being on the receiving end of white supremacy and fear of people of color. And so I think when we start there and talk about it much more broader then it becomes about our collective effort to fight white supremacy versus coming together to build a collective identity around ethnicity.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:15:53] Because that's not what we are about. You know, and I think we have a very similar story because I came to the U.S. over two decades ago as an international student, and similarly, I went to a campus Asian-American student meeting thing. And I was an international student. And and I'd actually grown up in India, going to boarding school. And if you look at any map, India is squarely in Asia.

  And so I invited my Indian friends to come to this meeting with me. Right. I show up and somebody goes, "Well, why did you invite them?" And I was like, "What are you talking about?" They're like, "Well, they're not Asian." I'm like, "Have you looked at a map?" I was floored. I had never imagined that Indians wouldn't be considered Asian. But here we are, living in this country where East Asians are saying things like that. And then a few weeks later I happened to have roommates who were biracial. They were Filipina- white, and then the other roommate was Japanese and white. Hapa, right? And so they were like, "Oh, no, no, no, that's not space for us. That's for like the Asian-Asian students." And I thought, "Oh, don't be silly. You're literally Asian-American, right?" So I bring them and again, they're like, "Why did you bring them?" And I'm like, "Cause they're Asian-American!" I mean, it was kind of ridiculous of this gatekeeping that was happening by East Asian students.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:17:15] That was my first year living in the United States. And so one of the things that I've committed to is to expand the table and to be inclusive of everybody that wants to join and be at the table. And so when I talk about Asian Americans having blue eyes and blond hair, you know, talking about the folks that are coming from Central Asia, from Afghanistan, from Uzbekistan, these places; and if they don't want to identify as part of our community, that's fine with me. But if they do, I'm more than happy to say, "Yeah, of course, look at a map. Like you are Asian-American." So for me, it's really been about expanding that table and challenging especially East Asians, about who gets to be identified as Asian-American and who doesn't. Even recently, when we're talking about all these hate crimes that are happening directed at mostly East Asians, or that's at least a perception. We have now posted a survey, a national polling earlier this year. In fact, the poll ran in February where 74% of all respondents -- We made sure we had a cross-section of our community. So we had South Asians, Southeast Asian, Pacific Islander, Native Hawaiians and East Asians. And we polled across the board and across the board 74% of the respondents that they had experienced some sort of harassment, discrimination, or racism in the last year. This is not an East Asian issue. Maybe some of us, especially in the East Asian community, is coming to realization that we're being scapegoated and that we're being harassed, but this was happening to South Asians, especially the Muslim community, the Sikh community after 9/11 in significant numbers and that actually hasn't stopped. And so it's about being able to talk about our particular experience. Like I've been thrown rocks... When the shutdown first happened, my only outlet to get out was to go

  on runs. And so I would go on these runs and I wouldn't wear a mask when I'm running. You know, I had two incidences where people threw rocks at me and chased me and said, go home and, you know, put on a mask. You're spreading coronavirus, go back to China, all these things. I know so many of us have had that experience and it shouldn't limit us to fighting for protection of our own immediate family community. It should really propel us to think about all the people that live in this country who fear for their lives when they go out in public. That's really for me, ultimately, where we need to land, that we're able to take our particular experience and then to rise up with other people who have had similar experiences to fight together. And so when you think about it that way, then it's not so much about erasing our particular identities to be united, but it's really focusing on the issues that unite us that we come together around, you know, regardless of our backgrounds.

  Mila Atmos: [00:20:07] Mm hmm. Yes. Well, I share, of course, similar stories about being harassed on the street. In fact, I was harassed on the subway a long time ago in the nineties. And so when this new slate of attacks against people who are stereotypically viewed as Asians started, I, I stopped taking the subway because I said, well, this has happened to me before and I don't want to get back on the subway. And recently I started taking the subway again, but I only take it literally twice a week at a time when I know the subway is really busy with commuters and the likelihood of being attacked is small but I refuse to take it at night, for example. And I used to take the subway all the time and I feel like this is you know, this is a great convenience of New York City to live here and take the train. That's, you know, that's a normal staple thing to do for everybody. And it's kind of terrifying that we can't feel safe. But yeah, you know, since I mentioned that really actually I was attacked in the nineties. So these attacks have been happening for a long time. And there's a huge, long history about Asians in America being attacked and hated. Do you think there's a way to stop this going forward? Because, you know the #Stopasianhate, I don't think that's working in a way that's actually going to move the needle. Or maybe I'm wrong.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:21:32] I have very mixed feelings about here. Some days I wake up and I'm like, okay, you know, we're all going to work together. We're getting recognition. Like something's going to happen. And then honestly, in January, I mean, you live in New York City. So obviously you knew about Michelle Guo's murder, Christina Yuna Lee's murder, and then a slew of murders of Asian-American women in

  Albuquerque who work in spas. And so I was getting these media inquiries again, like asking me what I thought was going on. And they're like, "well, why is this happening again?" And I said, "Well, it's not that it's happening again. It hadn't stopped. You just stopped paying attention because nobody was like gruesomely murdered." And that's the problem, right? This has happened to you in the nineties. This has happened to so many Asian-Americans in the history. Right. And you intersect the racism with sexism. And I mean, I'm sure you've experienced, as so many of us do, the street harassment we get because we are Asian-American women, because of the way we look. You know, when I first came to this country, I cannot count the number of times people have approached me because I was a Korean woman. "Oh, where are you from?" "Korea." "Oh, you know, I served in the military, blah, blah, blah." And it always inevitably leads to something lewd, something sexual they want to say to me, you know, always. And I couldn't believe that in a country this big, so many men thought the exact same thing about me when they saw me. And that's the reality so many of us have lived.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:23:02] When I think about the enormity of that and how that even started, the first Asian women who immigrated to the United States that's on record is this woman named Afong Moy. She's Chinese, and she was brought over by a New York businessman so that she could be on display so that Americans could, I guess white Americans could pay money, and look at this woman, and her, you know, porcelain skin, and her dark hair and her tiny feet, using chopsticks, speaking Chinese. That is the first image of Asian women in this country. We were entertainment to satisfy your curiosity. We were here for your consumption. And then years later, you get the first law that's discriminatory against Asian-Americans. It's not the Chinese Exclusion Act. It was before that. It's called the Page Act, and it excluded specifically women coming from East Asian countries. If we came without a male family member because quote unquote, we were assumed to be prostitutes, that would tempt the good men of America. And so, you know, when you think about these histories and the origin of how Asian women have been seen by America, it is no surprise that we were harassed in the eighties and the nineties and the 2000s. And people are still being murdered for it these days. Right. And so when I think about it in that way, it's hard for me to think that it's going to change. But what choice do we have but to continue to fight and advocate and educate and raise awareness so that there is change? Because I'm not going to leave a world for my daughter where she lives under the same kind of objectification and fear in public spaces.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:24:55] And so in some ways, do I believe that this will all change? You know, in my lifetime, I would like to think so. I would hope so. But I don't know. I don't think we have the option to not do anything about it because it's not going to change. And I do think it's better than it would have been because there are many people in our history who have fought and will continue to fight. Right. It's not just about Asian Americans doing what we can, but it's really, it has to be a sea change in the way we are talked about, public narratives that are about Asian-Americans. Just last year, my friend's daughter, Chinese-American girl, was made fun of at school because she took some dumplings to lunch and the kids made fun of her like, "Oh, you're eating cat. I heard Chinese people eat cat." That is propaganda that was perpetuated by the US government back during the Chinese Exclusion Act, when they wanted to demonize Chinese people and to rationalize why they were kicking Chinese people out of the country. Can you believe that? How many generations later, we're still hearing the same thing. And so it cannot just be us in our community levels trying. We've got to make public change. We've got to make media and entertainment change in the way they portray us, our stories, and who we are.

  Mila Atmos: [00:26:19] Mm hmm. Yes, definitely. Well, so. The first thing is what can we do as Asian-American women to amplify our voices and change the narrative?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:26:29] So first I would like to say that, like, you know, I was smiling when you were saying, but I had to get the A's and I had to work hard. You know, I want all Asian-American women listening to this podcast just to know that the world does not fall apart if you do not get an A. I'm a living proof of it. You know, we ourselves need to get out of this bondage and the stereotype and the duties and the burdens that have been placed on us that then we place on ourselves. We need to liberate ourselves from living into this stereotype, first of all, and find people... Surround yourself with community. Find people who are going to affirm you for who you are, for me, for your BS and CS, for me, for whatever body type you work, whatever shade of skin you are. Because so much of that's been ingrained in us from, you know, it's very complicated because people kind of develop cultures and cultural norms out of internalized colonialism. Right. That we all believed back home. You know, what country does not use whitening cream. We've all internalized that white is beautiful, that darker is not. And we need to break that cycle right, even within us. And if you're just generally

  fair, naturally that's fine. But let's not buy into this idea that certain book is more beautiful because that's what we've been ingrained in our heads. And so I think we need to unlearn a lot of things, first of all, and I find myself catching myself to write that, even though I don't say it out loud, I, I feel the thoughts coming to my head. I'm like, Oh, no, that's, that's, that's colonialism, that's sexism that I have internalized. And so I think that's first and foremost. I would like to encourage all your listeners, especially Asian- American women, to think about that and break out of that.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:28:13] And then I think comes the part of having courage to speak up. And I think that's always harder because you don't want to be that person. You don't want to be, quote unquote, the difficult person, because when you speak up, that's what you get labeled. I'm just going to generalize. But when white folks point out a problem, it's like, Oh, it's a problem, or it's just this person. But when a woman of color especially raises a problem, it's because of our ethnicity. It's because of who we are that we're deemed as difficult to get along with, that we're seen as too loud to opinionated. And so it's hard. But I think we need to start shedding our layers to really show up as who we truly want to show up as. Because the more of us that do that, the more it's going to be accepted by society that Asian-American women are also loud and opinionated. Right. I'm so tired of hearing. "Oh, but you're so articulate or you're so opinionated for Asian women." Like I get that all the time. "You know, you're so outgoing for Asian women." These things that people think about us, I mean, it doesn't help that media always portrays us that way. But I think the more people, you know, non Asian- American women encounter Asian-American women of all different personalities and types, the better off we are, and will be seen as people versus a type.

  Mila Atmos: [00:29:39] Yes. Well, the stereotype of the demure Asian woman, you know, I think that that has a hard time dying. It's a really unfortunate. But so this midterm election year, what specifically are you working on to build political power? How are you going about that? And what is the work that you do basically?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:29:58] Yeah. So at NAPAWF our mission is to build power with Asian American Pacific Islander women and girls so that we're able to create systemic change, to have agency, to make meaningful decisions over our own bodies, our families and our communities. We believe that when we are able to create systemic change that benefit our community, we're better off for it. Right. And in order to be able

  to create systemic change, we have to have the power to be able to do that. As we've been talking about, there's so many things that have been imposed on us in so many ways. Our lives are a series of consequences and circumstances of other people's decisions. And so in order to change that, we need to show up and we need to participate. And so NAPAWF has been working on voter engagement and voter education and voter mobilization for the last ten years. And prior to that, we did mostly just public policy advocacy work and narrative shift. But we believe that in order to really see these big changes we want, we need to activate our community to be participating in our civic duties, especially in voting, but more excitingly after the voting, then to hold our electeds accountable. Because voting is not the end of it. Just voting is not going to get you the changes you want to see. You need to continue to organize and engage so that our electeds are held accountable. And so this year we're really focusing our efforts on Florida and Georgia, the two states with big elections coming up. And one of the things that we are seeing, which is very unfortunate, is over the last, I would say, three elections, we have seen an increase in trying to restrict voters of color, restrictions that are pretty challenging to navigate if you are a first-time voter or if you don't speak English as your first language.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:32:01] And in Georgia, we've been doing this work for ten years, and every election we have to go knock on doors and call people and explain the rules to them because it's different every time there's an election. And none of this information comes to them in a language that they read and write. And so we have to reach out in languages that are voter speak and explain. We might not reach tens and thousands of people, but this is really labor intensive work. But we're really proud to do it because every vote should count and people who are most disenfranchised are the people who don't have language access or education to understand the changes that are happening in the rules for election. And so, o we're continuing to do that in Georgia and started doing that in Florida recently. And one of the amazing things we've seen is that, you know, as we're reaching out to our communities to help them understand the changes and how they can still vote, we see them find hope in finding solutions and continuing to work with NAPAWF on other issues that impact our lives. And so this year, we'll be doing most of the calls again because, you know, we're still unfortunately in a pandemic, but our hope is to reach as many Asian-American women voters as possible and people who don't even think that their vote matters or that they knew they could

  vote. We're hopeful that we're able to reach them and encourage them and get them out to vote.

  Mila Atmos: [00:33:31] That's great you've been doing this work for ten years. So are you at a point where you can say that Asian-American women are a solid voting bloc?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:33:41] You know, the term voting bloc tends to refer to people who vote in similar trends and sort of have a shared identity. And if you use that definition a bit, we actually are. Because if you look at the polling that's been done over the years of Asian American women and our voting, we tend to prioritize similar issues and tend to vote similarly. I think the challenge is really getting more of us out to vote consistently because we tend to fluctuate. Some years we show up, others, the other years we don't. And what we need to do in order to be really taken seriously as a voting bloc is to prove that our collective efforts can be consequential. And so I'm hopeful that Asian-Americans are the fastest growing population in the United States still. And I'm hopeful that the more we're out there and engaging people and talking about how easy it is to vote, how you deserve and are entitled to vote, you know, you'd be surprised at the number of people who tell me and tell us that, "oh, I shouldn't vote --like this is not my country." And we're like, "well, you're a U.S. citizens or this is your country and you should vote." I think we've also internalized this like perpetual foreigner stereotype that's been put on us to think that we're somehow always guests in this country that we helped build, that we help develop, that we pay taxes in. And so it's really about changing that mentality with folks. And it's one of the most rewarding things I think, you know, that we do is to see that shift in people, to feel like that they don't have to feel just grateful as a guest in this country, but that they can take ownership and to take ownership in a way to chart out our own history and to care for this country that reflects our values.

  Mila Atmos: [00:35:37] So as an everyday citizen, what are two things we could be doing, especially as Asian-Americans, to advance this idea that we should all be voting, first of all, especially if we are Asian, we think that we don't belong and essentially to build community and really make our legislators accountable to us.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:35:59] So first thing is, everybody needs to call all of your moms and dads and uncles and aunties and grandparents and make sure whatever

  state they live in that they know how to access their ballot. It's amazing how there's so many of us who are running around doing this work professionally could also have more reach when we reach out to our own family members as well. And so I encourage everyone to check. Don't assume that your parents are voting, that your relatives are voting, your siblings, are voting. Don't assume. Call them. Check. And not only ask them if they're going to vote, but we need to start having conversations with our family members around what impacts our lives and how our vote can reflect the kinds of changes we want to start to see in this country. So educating our family members is as important as just making sure they get out to vote. And then secondly, if you live in an area where there is a community of Asian-Americans, I encourage you to show up to events, put together events if there aren't any, and start to create a platform, an avenue, a way that people can gather and come together.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:37:20] Because I think you need to have relationships before you are going to take any action or do anything to hold our electeds accountable. And so I think the great thing now in this day and age, in 2022, is that there are many Asian-American organizations across the country that are working in our communities, in civic engagement, and getting people out to vote and organizing, engaging legislators. So it may just be a matter of finding a group that's near you, volunteering your time, working with them. But if not, then be the organizer, like do a monthly potluck for the Asian community, Asian-American community in your area, gather people just to get to know each other. And once you start getting to know each other, you start to understand what are the challenges people face? And from there, you know, identify who can help you solve the problem. And then talking to those appropriate elected officials. And so if there isn't a community in your area already, that's what I would really encourage you to do.

  Mila Atmos: [00:38:23] All great advice. So as we're rounding out the interview here, looking into the future, what makes you hopeful?

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:38:30] Oh, so many things. I have a seven year old daughter who is Blasian. She's Black and Asian, so we call it Blasian. And I look at her and her friends. And even just the way she talks about life and approaches life, she does it with so much confidence and such deep empathy and understanding. We are going to be in good hands once they come of age and they're leading. We're going to be

  in good hands. And I'm really hopeful that all the young people that are investing time and energy into our communities are doing the same right, that they are really the future. And so I'm hopeful that while white supremacy and racism is putting up a good fight, that we have generations of people coming up whose norm is not centering whiteness, whose norm is understanding that women and girls can do what men can do or better. Right. I think just being able to see life through the perspective of my daughter or once in a while just really does make me feel so hopeful and actually feel like we've accomplished so much more than it feels on the day-to-day grind.

  Mila Atmos: [00:39:44] Excellent. Thank you very much for speaking with us today. It was really a joy to have you on the podcast.

  Sung Yeon Choimorrow: [00:39:51] Thank you so much for having me.

  Mila Atmos: [00:39:53] Sung Yeon Choimorrow is the executive director of the National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum. Next week on Future Hindsight, we're joined by Katie Fahey. She's an inspirational citizen changemaker who built nonpartisan people power, getting ordinary people together to fix gerrymandering in her home state of Michigan.

  Katie Fahey: [00:40:18] So as we started talking at these town halls about the need for a bunch of us to just do a little bit, that's when people's eyes started opening to, "Oh, maybe I actually could help."

  Mila Atmos: [00:40:30] That's next time on Future Hindsight. This episode was produced by Zack Travis and Sarah Burningham. Until next time, stay engaged.

  The Democracy Group: [00:40:48] This podcast is part of the Democracy Group.